Forum PAGES 14-18

Bonjour à tous,


Germaine – Patrouilleur auxiliaire (1915~1918). Ex-chalutier.

Administrativement considéré comme bâtiment armé en guerre du 27 mai 1915 au 27 janvier 1918 [Circulaire du 25 avril 1922 établissant la Liste des bâtiments et formations ayant acquis, du 3 août 1914 au 24 octobre 1919, le bénéfice du double en sus de la durée du service effectif (Loi du 16 avril 1920, art. 10, 12, 13.), §. A. Bâtiments de guerre et de commerce. : Bull. off. Marine 1922/14, p. 720 et 744 – Errata Bull. off. Marine 1922/21, p. 41.].

“ GERMAINE F, Ateliers et Chantiers de Bretagne 1908 or De la Brosse et Fouché, Prairie-au-Duc, 1907, 224 grt, owner A. Fimbel, La Rochelle, 25.5.1915 to the Regia Marina, 1.6. or 1.7.1915 in service at Taranto as the vedette / tug GERMANA, 1.7.1917 renamed SCOLTA, decommissioned 15.2.1919, 6.1921 to the Servizio Navigazione di Stato as a passenger vessel until 3.1926, stricken by the RM 1.2. or 1.3.1929. ”

I attach a picture of GERMAINE/GERMANA from the book by Erminio Bagnasco and Achille Rastelli "Navi e marinai italiani nella Grande Guerra", Albertelli, 1997

Has anybody any idea if this GERMAINE was actually the former GERMAINE F of La Rochelle?

Very probably not, the trawler "Germaine F." built in 1907 is still registered as French trawler in Lloyd's Register 1920/21.

Well, this same objection was made to me by Giorgio Spazzapan, so you're in good company. But I suspect that LR 1920/21, like the one for 1945/46 for ww2, is simply a carbon copy of the last one before ww1, in the absence of reliable news and inspections about many small vessels during the war.

"But I suspect that LR 1920/21, like the one for 1945/46 for ww2, is simply a carbon copy of the last one before ww1, in the absence of reliable news and inspections about many small vessels during the war."

NO, at least not for the French vessels. With the exception of "Marthe", which was French again (and where the renaming during the war is missing, but that didn't change until she was scrapped) and the mysterious "Germaine F." the other trawlers transferred to Italy are no more listed as French in the 1920/21 edition.
Don't know if for the edition 1919/20 your suspicion is correct, but I assume it was (like for the British/Allied vessels during WW II) not a simple carbon copy, but relatively up to date. Of course not without mistakes, but the peace editions aren't, either.

Dear Klaus-Guenther, please let me explain the GERMAINE puzzle.

Italian sources: both Franco Bargoni ("Tutte le navi militari d'Italia 1861-2011") and Aldo Fraccaroli ("Italian Warships of World War I") have a SCOLTA (no mention of her temporary name GERMANA!) launched in 1913, 424 metric tons displacement. Giorgio Giorgerini and Augusto Nani ("Almanacco Storico delle navi militari italiane 1861-1995") have a SCOLTA built in Glasgow in 1913. Again, no GERMANA is mentioned here, while the photo from the book by Erminio Bagnasco and Achille Rastelli "Navi e marinai italiani nella Grande Guerra" which I attached shows a GERMANA in Brindisi in the late fall of 1917, with the recognition letters GM well visible painted on the hull.

Now, miramar has both a Belgian GERMAINE, built in 1896 by Mackie & Thomson at Old Govan, Glasgow, yard no. 109, 160 grt; and a French GERMAINE F, built by De la Brosse & Fouché at Prairie-au-Duc in 1907, 224 grt.

The French sources: J.-M. Roche, "Dictionnaire des Batiments de la Flotte de Guerre Française" vol. II, has no chalutier GERMAINE at all. The "Répertoire" has a chalutier GERMAINE requisitionné 1914-1918 without any other information. A website about the Loire chalutiers lists a GERMAINE built in 1908 by the Atéliers et Chantiers de Bretagne.

Both the Lloyd's Registers of Shipping for 1914/15 and for 1921/22 have no GERMAINE, only the GERMAINE F built in 1907.

Now, may submit the possibility that there could have been a trawler, built at Glasgow in 1913 under a different name, taken under the French flag by 1914 as GERMAINE and loaned (and later sold) to Italy in 1915 as GERMANA/SCOLTA? She was not, for some reason, included in LR 1914/15 issue, nor in the 1921/22 issue having by then become a naval vessel.

This seems to me the most reasonable way out. I hope you will be able to add your comments on this.

Thank you and kind regards,
Francesco

Might be your assumptions are correct, Francesco.
But some points:
I don't know if there is a French "Germaine" in LR 1914/15, I have but seen the 1913/14 edition, and there was only a freighter of 1428 GRT, built in 1909, which was lost under French flag in 1918, and two sailing vessels.
Would be interesting to know from which source Giorgerini/Nani have the information that the vessel was built at Glasgow, for neither the Clydebuilt Ships Database nor Miramar Ship Index have any trawler built at Glasgow in 1913/1915.
I'm somewhat surprised that a vessel only 16 years old when it was stricken didn't find a new owner, but was very probably scrapped. This would fit better for the Belgian trawler built in 1896 (which in fact was built at Glasgow). Are there any informations about his fate??
Kind regards
Klaus Günther

Thanks to Maurice:
the Belgian trawler "Germaine" built 1896 at Govan was wrecked in a gale off Briel (Netherlands) 01.01.1903. The crew was saved.

Thanks to Maurice:
the Belgian trawler "Germaine" built 1896 at Govan was wrecked in a gale off Briel (Netherlands) 01.01.1903. The crew was saved.

Giorgio Spazzapan has seen the LR 1914/15, and says that there are no French GERMAINEs there, only the Belgian one of 1896... the plot thickens.