Graves of French Soldiers "Shot at Dawn"

[mark]

Hello to all of you

I'm very interested in La Grande Guerre and at least once a year I visit Verdun.
I'm allways staying at camping Les Breuils of Celine.

Usually I visit the battlesites of Verdun/Argonne and their graveyards. I was wondering if on the graveyards soldiers are buried who were shot by firing squad. Their must be some graves, on account of the mutiny. But as far I know, there is no information on this point.
The English Soldies who were shot at dawn are all registered and their graves/graveyards are known.

Could anyone help me on this subject. I would like to visit their graves.

Thanks,

Mark

[Eric Mansuy]

Hi Mark,

It depends on the place and time where and when these men were shot.

As for me, whose main concern is the Vosges/Alsace area, this is what I can tell you: some of these men have been buried in a communal cemetery, others have been buried in a military cemetery with the "Mort pour la France" mention, others have been buried in a military cemetery without any mention (neither "shot at dawn", nor "Mort pour la France"), others have no known graves.

Best regards,
Eric

[acesar55]

Hi Mark, hi all,

Just for your information and as you used to visit the Verdun battlefields and the graveyards soldiers, go to the Fleury devant Douaumont destroyed village you will see the stella of two soldiers who were shot at dawn and then rehabilitated.

Best regards

Alain

[mark]

Thanks for the information.

I'll hope not to bother you too much but is there any info of soldiers graves who were wrongfully executed (shot at dawn) in France. I simply can't imagine that there were no executions for desertions etc.

Although, I've visited Butte de Vauqouis on May 1st this year. The guide told me that is was standard procedure for an officer to shoot the soldier in the back if he refused/was afraid/frozen to climb out of the trenches. Personally I've never heard this story. Could anyone verify this??

Next time I'll be visiting Fleury and search for this monument. Could you be so kind as to give a hint where I can find this monument?? It's noty in the village itself.

Thank you already.

PS The Campsite of Les Breuils has switched to new owners. Celine and Gilles stopped. Curious because when I've visited Les Breuils on April 30th upto May 7th they were still there.

[acesar55]

Hi Mark, hi all,

I'll hope not to bother you too much but is there any info of soldiers graves who were wrongfully executed (shot at dawn) in France. I simply can't imagine that there were no executions for desertions etc.

It is a pleasure to help you. Some soldiers were executed for desertion or self mutilation. Example should be done to avoid other ones.

Although, I've visited Butte de Vauqouis on May 1st this year. The guide told me that is was standard procedure for an officer to shoot the soldier in the back if he refused/was afraid/frozen to climb out of the trenches. Personally I've never heard this story. Could anyone verify this??

Personnally I can't prove that but I have heard about that and some movies talked of that. I think it is true

Next time I'll be visiting Fleury and search for this monument. Could you be so kind as to give a hint where I can find this monument?? It's noty in the village itself.

It is very easy to find the stella in Fleury. You just have to go inside of the destroyed village and walk to the "ravin des vignes". The stella is at the beginning of the ravin.

If you need any other help, please ask.

Regards

Alain

[Eric Mansuy]

Hi Mark,

"The guide told me that is was standard procedure for an officer to shoot the soldier in the back if he refused/was afraid/frozen to climb out of the trenches." : certainly not.

1. The notion of a "standard procedure" in such cases is sheer nonsense, and should, anyhow, be confronted with both contexts of time and place, which are no little matter: the way some men were shot in 1914 is far different from that of some later executions. If these are not taken into account, no serious study of the topic can be done. One more "legend" of the Great War, unfortunately...

2. When such shootings happened, they were mostly carried out by NCOs, not by officers, as far as soldiers' memories testify of these.

Best regards,
Eric

[mark]

Alain,

Thank you very much. May I use your expertise/knowledge of the Verdun region next time I visit Verdun. There is still much to learn and see.

Greeting
Mark (real name)

[mark]

Eric

Thank you. It maybe a legend, but as far as I know in a legend there will allways be some kind of truth in it. Still NCO's shooting there own men will have an impact on the troops itself.

And once again, I still have to learn much. I can speak French reasonable (I think) but reading is just one step too much. Which is a pity because there is much literature of the Grande Guerre in French but not translated into English. Dommage pour moi.......

Mark

[Eric Mansuy]

Mark,

When you write "as far as I know in a legend there will allways be some kind of truth in it," I agree with you. I wouldn't say no officer has ever shot one of his own men, nor would I say such a thing was usual. The truth must lie somewhere in between. I'm afraid the legend comes from mixing various sources and / or events: some officers -and even generals- physically threatened their troops with firerams, some NCOs shot down some men too, but I'd be glad to find -at least- one testimony in which one identified officer shoots one of his men. As far as I'm concerned, I have never read any, but, I insist, I'd be glad to find one.

See you,
Eric

[acesar55]

Thank you very much. May I use your expertise/knowledge of the Verdun region next time I visit Verdun. There is still much to learn and see.

Hi Mark,

No problem if you need my help for your next trip in the Verdun battlefield, you can get it. I am not the best expert for this battle and other guys in the forum have a huge knowledge about it. However I can share my experience if needed.

Regards

Alain